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KHRG #97-07 Part 2 of 6 (Offensives
Subject: KHRG #97-07 Part 2 of 6 (Offensives)
REFUGEES FROM THE SLORC OCCUPATION
An Independent Report by the Karen Human Rights Group
May 25, 1997 / KHRG #97-07
*** PART 2 OF 6 - SEE OTHER POSTINGS FOR OTHER PARTS OF THIS REPORT ***
[Some details omitted or replaced by 'XXXX' for Internet distribution.]
_____________________________________________________________________________
#D3.
NAME: "Saw Maw Lay" SEX: M AGE: 48 Sgaw Karen Christian hill rice farmer
FAMILY: Married, 7 children aged 1 year and up
ADDRESS: Meh T'Ler village, Dooplaya District INTERVIEWED: 26/2/97
[This family had just arrived out of the forest near Ka Hee Pa Leh on
26/2/97 and were picked up along the road by an NGO car because they
were carrying a 2-day old baby.]
Q: Uncle, where did you say your village is?
A: Meh T'Ler.
Q: You came with how many people altogether?
A: 1 person ... 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 - 11 people. [The last he points
to is the new baby.] We've just arrived now. The Burmese are in our village
now. I saw them, when we were hiding in the jungle. I saw them arrive.
None of the villagers were still in the village. When I saw them they didn't
do anything, but we dare not stay there because we are afraid of them.
Q: How many days ago did you flee your village?
A: Oh, we've been sleeping in the forest many nights already! 3 weeks -
we slept in the bush, for sure. Since we started to flee. Some villagers go
back - the men go back to get things. Me, I didn't go back to the village.
The Burmese came, I didn't dare go back.
Q: If you were staying in your village now what do you think the Burmese
would do?
A: Ah-ah! They'd order us to go and stay among them! I don't dare go
like that.
Q: Why didn't you stay there with the Burmese?
A: Ah-Ah!! Why does he ask questions like that?! If we could dare to stay
there, we certainly wouldn't have come here!
Q: Wouldn't you be happy among the Burmese?
A: We'd be very unhappy among them. Not one person is happy! If we
were happy [among them] not a single person would have fled to here!
Q: Are there any villagers still in your village?
A: No one is left there, everyone is coming here. But many are still
climbing over the mountains to come here. We had to climb a big
mountain. We slept along the path 3 nights on the way coming here [note:
they've been sleeping in the bush for 3 weeks, but fled the area of the
village 3 nights ago]. There are over 60 households in Meh T'Ler, and
some people are bringing along some cattle as well. People are fleeing from
Meh T'Ler, Po Si Mu, Taw Ghaw Law, Kwih Kler, ... Some of them have
arrived here, but many are still left in the jungle. I came with my
children.
I couldn't bring anything except these clothes on my body. Some of my
daughters and sons are in Kwih La Taw already. And this child here was
born just 2 days ago, to my daughter-in-law. Along the way [he points to
the mountain to the west]. 2 days ago. In the forest.
[The next questions were addressed to the mother, sitting on the ground
holding her baby:]
Q: Is your child a girl or a boy?
A: A girl.
Q: Have you given her a name yet?
A: Her name? She was born in the wilderness, so her name is 'Naw Wilderness'
[Naw Keh Klah].
Q: Are you well now?
A: Yes.
Q: And is your baby strong and healthy?
A: She is very well now. [Note: The mother is the daughter-in-law of
"Saw Maw Lay". Both of her parents are already dead.]
_____________________________________________________________________________
#D4.
1) NAME: "Saw Eh G'Lu" SEX: M AGE: 50 Sgaw Karen Christian hill rice farmer
FAMILY: Married, 2 children
ADDRESS: Meh K'Tee village INTERVIEWED: 27/2/97
2) NAME: "Saw Htoo Po" SEX: M AGE: 69 Sgaw Karen Buddhist hill rice farmer
FAMILY: Married, 3 children
ADDRESS: Tee Yoh Kee village INTERVIEWED: 27/2/97
3) NAME: "Saw Lah Wah" SEX: M AGE: 32 Sgaw Karen hill rice farmer
FAMILY: Married, 2 children
ADDRESS: Meh K'Tee village, Dooplaya District INTERVIEWED: 27/2/97
[These people were part of a group that crossed the Thai border near
Htee Sgaw Sghi, further east than Ka Hee Pa Leh, and were interviewed
while camped in straw shelters in a ricefield.]
Q: Where have all the people here come from?
1: We've come from Meh K'Tee, Lay Po Kee, Tee Meh Baw, Tee Yoh
Kee, Tah T'Naw Kee, Kyaw Kee, ... I arrived here 3 days and 2 nights
ago.
Q: When the Burmese arrived in your village where were you?
1: I was in the hills. I saw them! They shot at us! We left everything
behind, because the Burmese shot at us with their guns. They were shelling
with big guns, and also shooting their small guns. We only heard they were
coming when they were much less than an hour from us.
Q: Were they shooting in the air or at the people?
1: They shot at us, at all of us. We had to run, all of us including the
children, because we were afraid. So we have nothing with us, everything
was left behind there. The Burmese really make trouble for us.
Q: Were there any Karen soldiers in the village?
1: No, they just shot at the villagers. There were no Kaw Thoo Lei
soldiers. The Karen soldiers are at the frontline, not in our village. The
Burmese were just shooting at civilians. Ah!! The shells fell and fell
among the villagers. No one was wounded, but if you were hit you would
surely die. Now they are not fighting or shooting the Kaw Thoo Lei
soldiers, they are just shooting at the civilians. The Karen soldiers fight
them in the frontline area, but the Burmese just come behind and shoot at the
civilians. That's why the civilians have to flee. We can't dare stay in our
village.
Q: Are there still any villagers left around your village?
1: Some of the villagers are still around there because they're unable to
come up here. They're hiding in the jungle, and some of them have been
seized by the Burmese. Quite a lot of them have been seized. The
Burmese order them to return to stay in their homes. There must be over
200 people still hiding in the forest around our village. Over 60 people
arrived here in our group.
Q: What do the Burmese do when they arrive in the villages?
1: So far they haven't burned anything, but they took all of our rice,
paddy,
pigs and chickens, they ate all of it. If they see male villagers they'll
order them to serve as porters. I heard that they also caught 2 people, tied
them up and put them in the stocks. And they kill anyone who is well-known
[i.e. involved with the KNU].
Q: What will you do now?
1: We'll stay here. We don't have any food to eat now. I don't have either
mats or blankets - I only have these things here! [His clothes and little
else] We'll just stay here, and if someone helps us with food and allows us
to stay we'll go along with that.
Q: What did you do when it rained last night?
1: We couldn't do anything, we just had to cower down [they only had a
rough leaf roof full of holes above their heads].
Q: I heard that SLORC said they won't do anything to villagers if you go
back to your own village.
1: Ah!! We don't dare go back! We'll stay here our whole lives if they
allow us. We can't go back because we are afraid of SLORC. My village is
in the hills. I'm a hill rice farmer, but now the Burmese have taken all my
rice and my farm. We had to climb a really big and high mountain to get
here. I had to sleep in the forest and on the mountains for about 11 days.
We were afraid they would chase us, so we had to run in the nighttime. We
didn't dare move in the daytime. The adult men had to go ahead and watch
along the side paths and at the [path] crossings. Then if they didn't see
any
indication of the Burmese, they told the others to run quickly and pass
through. At that time there were about 300 of us altogether. Sometimes
there was no path, and we just pushed through the bushes and rushed
through the jungle at night, in the darkness.
2: Our way went straight through the bush. It was really painful on the
heels of my feet, they still hurt now. I came together with them. My
village is Tee Yoh Kee. I'm 69 years old - I'll be 70 at the coming Water
Festival.
3: We came in a group of about 300 people, and there were 2 babies born
during the 10 days we were in the forest. And at night while we were
passing over the mountain, we couldn't see the path and one stepped on a
mine. I think it was a Karen mine. I don't know what his name was - he
was just a child. 16 years old. His village was in the mountains.
I saw him. Nobody buried his body, they just covered it with leaves.
We were coming along the way, and there was no chance to bury him because
we were all running for our lives. We stopped there that night because we
didn't dare go on after the mine explosion, then we left in the morning.
Q: Are there many mines around there?
3: Yes, there are many, to block the Burmese from coming through that
way. But the Karen soldiers didn't know we were coming that way, and we
didn't see them either.
1: This SLORC makes so many problems and difficulties for us, they give
us such intense trouble. I'm not so well myself now. I'm unable to walk
anymore because of exhaustion. The SLORC [sic: Burma Army, before
1988] shot me once before, but then their gun jammed. It was over 10
years ago. I wasn't a soldier, they were just chasing and shooting
villagers.
So I jumped down from my house as soon as I saw them, and they shot at
me. The bullet hit me in the side. I had to go to the Kaw Thoo Lei hospital
at Bo Roh Mu.
_____________________________________________________________________________
#D5.
NAME: "Saw Tee Ku" SEX: M AGE: 31 Sgaw Karen farmer
FAMILY: Married, 3 children
ADDRESS: Maw Tha Ra village, Dooplaya District INTERVIEWED: 27/2/97
["Saw Tee Ku" was part of a group that crossed the Thai border near
Htee Sgaw Sghi, further east than Ka Hee Pa Leh, and were interviewed
while camped in straw shelters in a ricefield.]
My village is in Maw Tha Ra. It is one day's walk. My wife was left
behind among the Burmese. She was left there and we don't dare go back
again to bring her here. She will come if she sees any chance to come. If
it's impossible she will not come.
Q: What about your children?
A: We have 3 children. They are all left behind with my wife.
Q: But won't you go back to look for your wife?
A: I can't dare go back. I think a lot about her and remember her. We got
married 12 years ago.
Q: And your children?
A: Our oldest is 10 years old. The next is 7 years old, and our youngest
is 5.
Q: Did you bring along any belongings?
A: No, everything was left there. I couldn't bring anything along with me.
The Burmese were in Meh K'Tee and Pa Klaw Kee already, and I was
running.
_____________________________________________________________________________
#D6.
NAME: "Puh Tha Htoo" SEX: M AGE: 65 Sgaw Karen Buddhist hill rice farmer
FAMILY: Married, 8 children, also came with his grandchildren
ADDRESS: Maw Tha Ra village, Dooplaya District INTERVIEWED: 27/2/97
["Saw Tee Ku" was part of a group that crossed the Thai border near
Htee Sgaw Sghi, further east than Ka Hee Pa Leh, and were interviewed
while camped in straw shelters in a ricefield.]
Q: Grandfather, could you bring your belongings here with you?
A: Only some. Just one or two pieces of clothing, a rice pot and a spoon,
that's all.
Q: When did you run?
A: We ran ahead, before they could reach the village. We slept a night at
Kwih Kler, then many nights in the forest. I came riding on a cart. I
started running on the 10th of the English calendar [10 February].
_____________________________________________________________________________
#D7.
1) NAME: "Saw Kler" SEX: M
2) NAME: "Saw Lah" SEX: M
ADDRESS: Saw Hta (Azin) village, Dooplaya District INTERVIEWED: 26/2/97
["Saw Kler" and "Saw Lah" are KNU officials who were based at Saw Hta
before the SLORC offensive.]
Q: Did you see any people in the forest?
1: Yes, I saw some people in the jungle.
Q: If the Burmese saw them there what would they do?
1: The people are fleeing everywhere because they are afraid of the
hardships SLORC will make for them. So I don't think they'll do anything
too serious to them if they find them at first. I think they'll only order
them back to gather in their villages. No one dared to stay in the villages.
2: So far they haven't done anything to the people they've found hiding in
the forest, they've just called them back.
1: When the Burmese find people hiding in the forest, they call them back
and give them a written summons. They order them to go and search out
the other villagers and their friends and show them the summons. It says
everyone has to come back to the village by the given time. If the people
don't go back to their villages by that time I don't know what the Burmese
will do.
Q: Is it easy for people to go to Ka Hee Pa Leh [in Thailand]?
1: It's not at all easy to go along the main path. The only way is to climb
over the mountains and then down through the valleys. Many villagers are
doing this to arrive there.
_____________________________________________________________________________
#D8.
[The following interview was conducted with a Karen soldier fighting in
Dooplaya District on 25/2/97.]
I think their soldiers may be on some kind of medicine, because they are
often moving forward in the open much too quickly and carelessly, and they
open fire at anything very easily. It is very difficult to see how many
porters they have because their troops have been completely surrounding their
porters all the time. They have a lot of porters where they've set up their
office at Lay Po Hta [Lay Po Hta was a Karen refugee camp on the
Burma side of the border, captured by SLORC on about 20 February].
Many of their porters are Burmese from Moulmein. I saw one porter who
had fled from the SLORC. He could not eat and he could not walk. He
hadn't been wounded by gunfire, but he had serious wounds and pain on his
back - it was all cut to pulp, because he had to carry heavy loads of all the
SLORC soldiers' things. He couldn't even eat anything that we tried to feed
him. I tried to feed him some rice, but he couldn't chew or swallow. He
was in a terrible situation, he couldn't carry their loads anymore and he
couldn't even walk. He was in Kwih Kler village, in a house there. We
tried to take him with us when we saw him but we couldn't, because just
then the fighting started there [the SLORC began attacking Kwih Kler].
The enemy was following us and fighting started so we left, and we left him
there. So he was just left alone in that house, because I couldn't carry him
through the fighting. I think he died there. It was on the 15th of
February.
He was Burmese, about 37 or 38 years old, and he was from Moulmein.
Q: We saw about 80 porters with the SLORC near Lay Po Hta carrying
rice along the path to the west. Where were they carrying the rice to?
A: The enemy is camping at villages like Kwih Kler, Po Si Muh, Meh
T'Ler, and K'Neh Paw Kyeh, so they are carrying the rice back to their
soldiers there. They are taking it from the refugee rice storehouse - it was
the rice for the refugees in Lay Po Hta. The refugees couldn't save the rice
from the storehouse because of the fighting, so the SLORC got it and they
took it back to Kwih Kler.
Q: Are there any villagers still in Saw Hta [Azin]?
A: Only a few of them were caught and detained in the village. The
Burmese won't let them leave the village. They make people carry things.
_____________________________________________________________________________
#D9.
[The following information was reported by a new refugee at Ka Hee Pa
Leh on 26/2/97. There are many such reports.]
They arrested a man named Pa Kyet. His village is Ta Waw Law. He was
among the mountains, and he went back to get his things in Ta Waw Law
and the Burmese caught him. He went with his 2 friends, and his friends
got away and came here, that's how we heard. It happened 2 days ago. Pa
Kyet is married but I'm not sure his age - about 19 years old, he's not 20
yet. He got married in Ta Nay Pya. They have a child already. I don't
know where his wife has fled to. At first he and his wife came up here.
_____________________________________________________________________________
#D10.
[The following information was given on 16 February by a villager from
Kwih Ta Hoh village, Dooplaya District who had just fled the village:]
4 people were arrested when SLORC troops came into the village:
- 1 man, Pa Kya Nwe, 50, shot dead
- 1 man, Saw Maw Leh Htoo, 30, arrested - not sure if dead or not
- 1 woman, Daw Hla Than, 25, wife of Saw Maw Leh Htoo, raped, still alive
- 1 girl, Naw Mu Naung, 14, raped and died
[The following information was noted down by a human rights monitor
from an interview with a villager who had fled Tee Wah Klu village (near
Meh K'Tee), Dooplaya District:]
On 11 February he, T---, 44, of Tee Wah Klu, and his pregnant wife M---,
40, ran to Pa Klaw Kee with 88 people when the SLORC arrived at Tee
Wah Klu. On 16 February their baby daughter was born in the jungle at Pa
Klaw Kee. On 24 February T--- went back to Tee Wah Klu village to see
the situation. His village was empty. SLORC had taken 24 cattle and 140
tins of paddy. Unfortunately, he was caught in his house and taken as a
porter to carry the villagers' belongings [which the troops had looted].
Then he got permission to go for one day to see his family. On 25
February he went back and informed the villagers in the jungle about the
situation. Pa Klaw Kee is only 4 hours' walk upstream from Tee Wah Klu.
But SLORC followed him to Pa Klaw Kee, so the villagers ran away again.
Only his wife and the baby were left behind. On 26 February, SLORC
soldiers told his wife M--- to call the villagers to come back. On 27
February the villagers left and crossed the border to Thailand. On the way,
the newborn baby died.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Interviews with Muslim Refugees
#D11.
NAME: "Thein Myint" SEX: M AGE: 34 Muslim shopkeeper
FAMILY: Married, 3 children
ADDRESS: Kyaikdon village, Dooplaya District INTERVIEWED: 24/3/97
Q: When did you arrive here?
A: 20 days ago. When I left Kyaikdon to come here, the enemy was
already there.
Q: Did you return to Kyaikdon or not?
A: I am going to tell you everything. When I first left Kyaikdon [just
before the SLORC arrived], I stayed in the forest behind Taw Ya Kyaung
monastery nearby the village for 3 or 4 days. My children became sick, so I
went back to the village and the soldiers told us to go away. I went back to
the village with others in 3 bullock carts. When we arrived in the village
we went to fetch water at the mosque, and the soldiers saw us and drove us
out with their guns by telling us: "You, Muslims, you cannot stay here!" We
could not even go back to retrieve our possessions. The soldiers had
destroyed the mosque, they burnt the [Muslim] school down and they tore
up all the Korans. I myself saw what the SLORC had done. I saw all the
religious books they destroyed, all scattered around, and I saw how they had
damaged our mosque. I dared not look at it too long, because the soldiers
were standing very close to me and wouldn't allow me to look at it. So I
bowed down my head and fetched the water. I saw a big gun in the
compound of the mosque. The mosque was collapsed and scattered. They
cursed us as Muslims, they said "Nga lo ma kala!" ["Fuck the mothers of
all Muslims!"] They also asked me, "What are you doing here in the
village? Would you like to rebuild your mosque again? If you want to you
can!" I didn't say anything, I just left the village with the bullock cart
at
about 12:30 because they forced us to leave the village. We can't destroy
each other's religion and faith. I felt so sorry about that, so we went and
slept in another village.
Then we went towards Sar Pa Daw village, and we spent a night in Sar Pa
Daw. We met the soldiers again. At the time, many people were there and
23 bullock carts. At Kaw Tha Nu, another 7 bullock carts, so altogether 30
bullock carts. When we were staying there, 3 soldiers came and asked for
money, to collect 3,000 Kyats amongst us to buy pork. The soldiers said,
"All of you, you cannot eat our food!" That is why we had to buy one pig
for the soldiers. [This was done as a humiliating insult, because Islam
forbids the eating of pork.] They ordered us to buy it. If not, we would be
beaten. Then we combined with the 7 bullock carts at Kaw Tha Nu village
and we spent 2 nights at Kaw Tha Nu. Then they demanded 500 Kyats for
each cart. Altogether we had to pay them over 15,000 Kyats. Then the
soldiers asked, "Where are all of you going to?" We replied: "To Than Ma
Ya." When we arrived at Than Ma Ya, the soldiers told us, "You cannot
stay here. You have to go back to your village!"
At that time, the passenger boat to Seik Gyi arrived. My family is big.
Altogether we are 8 people. I took the boat and went back to Kaw Tha Nu
village. When I got there, the villagers asked me where were our wives and
children. I explained to them that they were all at Than Ma Ya village and
that I was the first one to arrive back at Kaw Tha Nu. I told the villagers
there what happened to us.
To destroy our religion and our mosque - these are the cruel things they did
to us. The soldiers did that because they were ordered by the Army
officers. They are from #22 [Light Infantry] Division, #202 Battalion and
#44 Division. When I saw the mosque they had already destroyed it with
their hands, but after that they blew it up with mines and razed it with a
bulldozer. Even though they didn't torture us, they destroyed our mosque
and that's what we can't bear. They cursed us and forced us to leave. Now
the Buddhist people who come to the camp here say that at Kyaikdon gate
near the village the soldiers have hung a signboard that says, "No entry for
Indians" [meaning Muslims]. Muslims are strictly prohibited to enter
Kyaikdon, but Buddhist people can stay there.
When there was fighting some Muslims ran to Ber Kler [southeast along
the plains to the Thai border] and others ran to the mountains. It took
them at least 8 days' journey and they had to climb several mountains, but
they didn't meet the enemy. The people who ran to Ber Kler met the
enemy, but now they've all arrived at the [refugee] camp. Some fled to
other villages, but many came here.
I met many people along the way who had to go as porters, from places like
Moulmein, Thaton and Maw Tama. They arrived at Kyaikdon, but then
they all were sent back to their places. After the SLORC settled at
Kyaikdon they released the porters. I met some of them at Seik Gyi. They
were ordinary villagers. We were talking about the SLORC setting fire to
our mosque, and they were talking about how the porters had to carry big
guns and bullets for the SLORC. I heard what they were talking about
because they were sitting close to me, but I didn't dare ask them anything.
I heard them say that it took a week to serve as porters, and that those who
couldn't carry their loads were beaten. They were not only Muslims, but
everybody. I saw about 50 of them who were going back.
Q: Are the SLORC already building or repairing roads around Kyaikdon?
A: They are now constructing a road from Kyaikdon to Seik Gyi. Trucks
can go already. The soldiers did it with a bulldozer.
Q: How did you manage to come here?
A: I lived in Kyaikdon for a long time, we were all like a family. We were
all close to each other like relatives. I wanted to stay there because I had
lived there so long. I could not be happy at Kawkareik, which is my native
place, and I can never forgive them for what happened to our mosque, that
is why I came to stay here. My shop [in Kyaikdon] was full of things but I
left it all, I carried nothing with me here, though some other shopkeepers
carried all their things here.
_____________________________________________________________________________
#D12.
NAME: "Nurul Islam" SEX: M AGE: about 40 Muslim merchant
ADDRESS: Kyaikdon village, Dooplaya District INTERVIEWED: 27/2/97
[This interview was conducted in the "Muslim section" of Ka Hee Pa Leh
in Thailand. "Nurul Islam" and his family had just fled to Thailand.]
Q: What did the Burmese do when they arrived in Kyaikdon?
A: They destroyed the mosque. They took all the wooden boards from the
mosque, from the floor, the walls and the roof, and burned them. They
also burned some villagers' houses around there. They also killed 2 people
from Meh Ka Htee Hta. People who came here later saw it all. The brothers
and family of one of the men killed are all staying here - that is his
niece there. Her husband was staying with her uncle, and he just arrived
here yesterday. The Burmese killed her uncle 3 days ago, because he was ill
and unable to run. He was just a villager, but he couldn't run because of
illness when the Burmese came. There were 3 of them left in the village.
All 3 were killed, and 2 of them were Muslim. They were staying between
Tee Tha Blut and Pa Klaw Kee villages. Their names were Pa Mot, Maw
Mot Kya, and Hu Sein. All of them were men. Hu Sein was not so old,
though Maw Mot Kya was older, his hair was white - about 50 years old.
Q: Are there any villagers still in Kyaikdon village?
A: There are many villagers still there, even my sisters and brothers. But
not in the village, they are scattered here and there in the jungle and on
the mountainsides. Maybe some have gone down to the towns like Moulmein,
I don't know. We ran and came here.
_____________________________________________________________________________
- [END OF PART 2 - SEE SUBSEQUENT POSTINGS FOR PARTS 3 THROUGH 6] -
______________________________________________________________________________
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